Talk:Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Tournament Fighters

This is the place where all notes from SRK Forum and the TMNT TF Discord will go until they are added to the wiki:

Super Surfin' Street - 1/11/2018 I was thinking a few days back why Endless Screw whiffed in certain situations, and I came to the conclusion that there is some sort of asymmetrical bug offsetting the hitbox. Leo whiffs CD up close facing right, yet whiffs on Shredder from close HP facing left. Whatever's going on, the hitbox is shifting right regardless of side.

Super Surfin' Street - 12/22/2017 Projectile start to animation end Armaggon: 19 Leonardo: LP 34 HP 37 Raphael: 16 Donatello 29 Michelangelo: 26 Chrome Dome: LP 37 HP 41 (projectile starts behind so it won't hit immediately up close) Street's note. Might be inaccurate now. Please refer to recovery of projectiles in each character's frame data.

Super Surfin' Street - 11/26/2017 Aska got buffed in MW. Her DP is so much safer on block as well as doing more damage and dizzy(edited) Street's note: The hitbox is indeed smaller on the first frame, but this is only noticeable if the opponent crouches. The second hit is still a knockdown. The increased damage and dizzy compensate this

Super Surfin' Street - 12/18/2017 Oh yeah. Dizzy recovery is 1 per frame on all speeds. The faster the game, the easier it is to dizzy.

Super Surfin' Street - 12/21/2017 Another big discovery post incoming There is a good reason why special move inputs seem lenient. The first input of each special motion has an indefinite limit. Think of it like charge moves: after charging for a specified time and you can keep the charge afterwards. The real time window starts when you input the move's next direction. As stated in the past, the game is weird with diagonals. I should point out that the diagonal isn't even needed for turtles' QCF motions.

It's because of that they are able to invertedly "store" motions. Although the diagonal is not needed, it does trigger the proper move's timer anyway. They are still holding down, so they can do the opposite move's input. As for Mikey and Raph, my best guess from this discovery is that the HCF move becomes replaced holding back long enough. My thought to fix this through move priority seems less plausible, but it might still be possible. As for how I found this, I was looking into DPs. You could hold forward for as long as you wanted, which was why the move always overlapped QCF.

I'm still trying to figure out Chrome Spark though. I can't input it the same way as Shining Cutter at TAS speeds. Street's note: It turns you have to hold forward and punch at the same time for Chrome Spark.

Differences from Jed's code: -Neat input display is gone -Stun Damage cannot be traced -Possible Damage indicator added; use this to help figure out a move's active frames! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308819750975176714/394925459558760461/BirbFighters.lua

Rockforge - 12/27/2017 https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zTnhLRGRMGUTxAtgI4OMYylgm2SlXkaT heres the hitboxes i got for everyone except the bosses far from perfect but its something

Super Surfin' Street - 12/17/2017 I just found a few interesting bugs with War. If you happen to get hit with his Head Stomp you can't do back charge moves as a reversal. Why this is important is that it's only an overhead while War is P1 for whatever reason (asymmetry bug). This does prove useful for @War as it makes it impossible for him to be punished on-hit... unless you put yourself in the corner.

Super Surfin' Street - 12/14/2017 Stuff I discovered during Tobe's stream:

Mikey's Super is too fast to be blockable. Even when it can be blocked, it's not a low. Pushback does not speed up, allowing chain moves to hit closer given proper timing and possibly more hits. Not all animations are sped up equally. Faster moves means less damage decay. HS1+ Visual errors on Aska's and Leo's spin moves HS3 CD does two separate kicks in one crLK, but the second one does not play if the first connects HS2+ CD gets five hits in a crLK chain HS3 CD's CPS chain only has a one-frame window HS2 Endless Screw gets an extra hit HS3 Leo cannot chain crLK while facing left HS3 Leo/Raph/Don cannot chain stLK into stLK HS3 Leo/Raph/Don can only chain into crLK facing right against bugged blockers HS1+ Leo/Don cannot chain Elbow HS2+ Mikey cannot chain crLP HS1+ Dynamite Bomber does not land all hits except on Turtles HS3 Shredder cannot chain crLP HS1+ Wingnut chains one less crLK in most situations HS3 Wingnut chains one less stLK HS3 Armaggon's crHP into Shark Upper whiffs if not in the corner. HS2 Aska gets an extra hit on HK spin

Super Surfin' Street - 12/15/2017 Found a pattern with charge times:

Charge times on Normal Speed: Armaggon: 40 frames Shredder: 48 frames Everybody else: 50 frames

Charge times on HS1: Armaggon: 30 frames Shredder: 38 frames Everybody else: 40 frames

HS2: Armaggon 25 frames Shredder: 33 frames Everybody else: 35 frames

HS3: Armaggon: 20 frames Everybody else (including Shredder): 25 frames

Super Surfin' Street - 11/27/2017 The "intentional input delay" on normals is connected with the "delay" on chaining moves. I'm going to call these delay frames "dead" frames. Counting them immediately after button press, Turtles/War have two while everybody else acts the next frame. These frames simply use whatever sprite is available as a delay before doing the animation proper. This affects startup on moves. I honestly believe these dead frames are the reason why chains feel so delayed. For balancing purposes, if you want to change the startup without changing the attack otherwise, this is worth looking into. I cannot confirm whether it can be modified on an individual basis. I only found that this doesn't affect their specials or jump attacks. Thanks to tobemorecrazy, we also know that dead frames exists on Wingnut's jump (8 frames overall when average is 3 on HS1).

If you want my guess why this exists, it's probably due to the lack of animation. Leo's LP is just one sprite, so they had to do something to balance it. I'm genuinely curious if Chrome Dome's speed is an oversight though. Update: This is not the case at all. I decided to test it out and it does have actual startup similar to Shredder's LP. 5 frames on normal; 4 on HS1 (minus dead frames).

And no: Speed settings don't change dead frames, which is why they're problematic.

@Leonardo @Raphael @Michelangelo @Donatello @War Edit #2: TURTLE BUG SIX FOUND: War and Turtles have two extra frames of delay before the animation starts while EVERYBODY ELSE WORKS THE NEXT FRAME! Street's note: Only grounded normals are delayed. Jump attacks and specials are fine.

Super Surfin' Street - 10/27/2017 I just wasted a good two hours of my life to figure out the handicap formula. It's pretty much your defense modifier. It might be a good way to work around giving bosses leverage if they're going to be balanced. In short, Base level is 3, each level modifies the damage you take by an eighth. Half damage at 7, 1.375 extra at 0. Throws are not scaled BTW formula: dam+=dam*(-level+3)/8

Rockforge - 10/23/2017 "unblockable" stuff for the overhead glitch against Arm aska And shredder(This bug allso works on rat king if it hasnt been mentioned yet)

Arm:Blockd fireball Or blockd lowest possible height Dive>sweep
 Chrome dome: Blockd cr lk>cps Sweep
 war: prettymuch any light into cr lk Or cr lk  into sweep
wingnut: blockd cr lk Dive or fireball >Sweep
 Leonardo/Donatello/Raphael: Blockd cr lkxN>cps sweep

Super Surfin' Street - 10/13/2017 Someone mentioned in last night's chat that Armagon's charge moves are too lenient. Turns out everybody has an 11-frame window after letting go of the charge. False claim. Next up, figuring out those dick punches. (edited) 3 It is possible to do five shots in a row, but these characters only take four before being out of reach: War. Chrome Dome, Aska (when not in corner), Armaggon, Karai, and himself. An extra hit is theoretically possible on them if you manage to jump kick them from directly above, but that's very situational.(edited) Brb gonna test crouching states One-less-hit duckers: Shredder, War, Aska (extra corner hit) One-more-hit losers: Karai (extra corner hit), Wingnut Unchanged: Chrome Dome, Turtles, Armaggon, Rat King Street's note: This 11-frame window is for each required input after the first.

Super Surfin' Street - 09/17/2017 Also, War seems to have both turtle problems. No-block getup as mentioned on the VOD, and throws don't reset his dizzy. Chances are if he had a quarter-circle move he could store it as well.

Super Surfin' Street - 08/25/2017 Found a relatively easy way to do Don's Rapid Bo. Do YXY for light or YXX for heavy. I found this out trying to perfect a dizzy combo with him against Karai. Street's note: For whatever reason, YXX is the only way to get the piano motion to work for heavy. Every other combination does light.

Super Surfin' Street - 09/06/2017 I honestly thought there was a minimum amount of dizzy for attacks when I was testing with Aska, but despite Aska's LP doing 128 for 3 damage, Leo's LP does 96 for 6 damage. I'm impressed they compensated her ability to dizzy despite her low damage and lack of combos. Street's note: General rule for stun is damage*16. Certain moves are special exceptions.

Find info about the recovery of stun off of throw as it pertains to turtles.